Great read! Thanks. Your article made me think of a recent talk that the Author's of Ten Global Trends Ronald Bailey made at a Cato talk which was highlighted on Page 5 of their book. England's primary role as a creator of individual property rights did aa much as the Steam Engine to drive the Industrial Revolution. Magna Carta and England's development of the individual rights was simply amazing in the force of nature it created.
As I understand it, one might use more matured coppiced timber for smaller, less structural uses like planking. But otherwise yes, it would need to grow to a much larger thickness - probably pollarded instead, if not let alone. And over a much, much longer time. Ash, for example, was according to one guide in 1612 best-suited for coopers at about 14-16 years, for ploughs and waggons at 30, and for building / shipbuilding at about 40-50, if not longer. Oaks thought to be best at 70-80 years, though I've seen later guides saying 100.
To my understanding, you would never use Ash for outside usage as it isn't durable and succumbs to rot and insect attack. Protecting wood supply for ship building was also a big deal in Venice in the middle ages, in particular. To such an extent that, even though they generally looked to the sea for empire, they took over large parts of forested land in the Dolomites/Alps to literally grow the wood they needed in the shapes that would suit. This was more pine or fir than oak so faster growing but still a policy that means adopting a 50 year plan! There is a theory that boats got progressively smaller from Saxon times onwards as the larger trees got used up and the clinker style of shipbuilding that came from the North didn't really suit making the planking up from multiple pieces of wood. Carvel construction from around the Mediterranean however developed the butt joint which allowed for larger and larger ships. I read an interesting fact about the Venetian shipbuilding industry however. They had generally built shallow draft boats - because that was what they could float out of the lagoon into the Adriatic and because it was good enough for travelling around the Med and into the Black Sea. When the routes to America and round the bottom of Africa were discovered however, deep draft, long keel boats became the preference . The Arsenale boat builders could have built these boats but they couldn't get them out to sea. They came up with all sorts of floating techniques to lift the boats or tilt them onto one side but, in the end, deep harbours became the place to build your Atlantic going boats and Venice got left behind - that and being increasingly at the wrong end of the Mediterranean of course. Anyway, back to wood. I'm pretty certain most decent oak had been used up in the UK by the time of Henry VIII and the search was on to find it in the Baltic states etc. The discovery of teak and mahogany in 'The Colonies' was a dream for the British Navy. I believe there was also an enormous trade with North America for certain types of cedar and woods like pitch pine which are pretty much extinct these days!
That's curious on ash. My source for that statement was Rooke Churche, An Old Thrift Newly Revived, 1612, p.53. He was very knowledgeable about trees, and very likely a professional estate surveyor - the work is a dialogue between a surveyor and various other interested parties. I'm heavily inclined to believe him. Might be something to do with treatment of the wood?
On oak, the evidence doesn't seem to suggest that it's actually used up by the time of Henry VIII. Just that there is an impending shortage. Only in the early 17thC is that shortage no longer being talked of as impending, but seemingly present. Even then, however, the sources likely have a tendency to exaggerate the shortage as a way to prompt action. Baltic imports ended up relieving pressure on timber prices, certainly.
Fascinating on Venice, its shipbuilders, and the theory about the origins of carvel construction. Thank you!
As I understand it, Ash is an excellent wood for all indoor purposes. It can consist of a lot of sapwood however which is vey prone to insect infestation - think woodworm. Maybe this was different in your source's time. It certainly has a lot of other properties of oak.
I am enjoying how you go back to the original documentation rather than relying on hearsay to develop your theories. So much of the information around shipbuilding is word of mouth because it was handed down through the generations by people who didn't need to be literate. However, if you can find someone to talk to who was trained on wooden ship building up to the late 60's, it's amazing how much hadn't changed up to that point, for centuries.
The Venetian stuff is all anecdotal (and probably all for the glory of the Serenissima) although there were models in the Naval Museum showing the floating process! I'd love to be able to go back to source documentation here to back some of it up. However the way the Venetians industrialised the process of ship building is extraordinary. Also what they would do to keep the process secret.
Another facet of industrialisation that might interest you is the assembly line process of making wooden blocks for rigging that was, by all accounts, a really big deal for the British Navy at Portsmouth Naval Base. I can't speak to the exact transition from clinker to carvel but it's worth investigating as is this whole issue of the size of trees and what shape they were. (Grown shapes that could be used for stems or floors/frames for example were very valuable because they were easier to work and stronger. It seems to be the case that the Venetians actually bent trees as they were growing to create the shapes they needed. There's also the idea that a master shipwright could spot a grown timber in the tree and know exactly where that particular radius would fit. They might leave the tree until the needed it or cut the piece out and then bury it in mud to preserve it until needed.)
To be honest the subject is a minefield!!! But utterly fascinating in terms of the innovations that developed off the back of Navies and naval campaigns.
Beautiful.
Great read! Thanks. Your article made me think of a recent talk that the Author's of Ten Global Trends Ronald Bailey made at a Cato talk which was highlighted on Page 5 of their book. England's primary role as a creator of individual property rights did aa much as the Steam Engine to drive the Industrial Revolution. Magna Carta and England's development of the individual rights was simply amazing in the force of nature it created.
Coppiced trees are no good for shipbuilding.
As I understand it, one might use more matured coppiced timber for smaller, less structural uses like planking. But otherwise yes, it would need to grow to a much larger thickness - probably pollarded instead, if not let alone. And over a much, much longer time. Ash, for example, was according to one guide in 1612 best-suited for coopers at about 14-16 years, for ploughs and waggons at 30, and for building / shipbuilding at about 40-50, if not longer. Oaks thought to be best at 70-80 years, though I've seen later guides saying 100.
To my understanding, you would never use Ash for outside usage as it isn't durable and succumbs to rot and insect attack. Protecting wood supply for ship building was also a big deal in Venice in the middle ages, in particular. To such an extent that, even though they generally looked to the sea for empire, they took over large parts of forested land in the Dolomites/Alps to literally grow the wood they needed in the shapes that would suit. This was more pine or fir than oak so faster growing but still a policy that means adopting a 50 year plan! There is a theory that boats got progressively smaller from Saxon times onwards as the larger trees got used up and the clinker style of shipbuilding that came from the North didn't really suit making the planking up from multiple pieces of wood. Carvel construction from around the Mediterranean however developed the butt joint which allowed for larger and larger ships. I read an interesting fact about the Venetian shipbuilding industry however. They had generally built shallow draft boats - because that was what they could float out of the lagoon into the Adriatic and because it was good enough for travelling around the Med and into the Black Sea. When the routes to America and round the bottom of Africa were discovered however, deep draft, long keel boats became the preference . The Arsenale boat builders could have built these boats but they couldn't get them out to sea. They came up with all sorts of floating techniques to lift the boats or tilt them onto one side but, in the end, deep harbours became the place to build your Atlantic going boats and Venice got left behind - that and being increasingly at the wrong end of the Mediterranean of course. Anyway, back to wood. I'm pretty certain most decent oak had been used up in the UK by the time of Henry VIII and the search was on to find it in the Baltic states etc. The discovery of teak and mahogany in 'The Colonies' was a dream for the British Navy. I believe there was also an enormous trade with North America for certain types of cedar and woods like pitch pine which are pretty much extinct these days!
That's curious on ash. My source for that statement was Rooke Churche, An Old Thrift Newly Revived, 1612, p.53. He was very knowledgeable about trees, and very likely a professional estate surveyor - the work is a dialogue between a surveyor and various other interested parties. I'm heavily inclined to believe him. Might be something to do with treatment of the wood?
On oak, the evidence doesn't seem to suggest that it's actually used up by the time of Henry VIII. Just that there is an impending shortage. Only in the early 17thC is that shortage no longer being talked of as impending, but seemingly present. Even then, however, the sources likely have a tendency to exaggerate the shortage as a way to prompt action. Baltic imports ended up relieving pressure on timber prices, certainly.
Fascinating on Venice, its shipbuilders, and the theory about the origins of carvel construction. Thank you!
As I understand it, Ash is an excellent wood for all indoor purposes. It can consist of a lot of sapwood however which is vey prone to insect infestation - think woodworm. Maybe this was different in your source's time. It certainly has a lot of other properties of oak.
I am enjoying how you go back to the original documentation rather than relying on hearsay to develop your theories. So much of the information around shipbuilding is word of mouth because it was handed down through the generations by people who didn't need to be literate. However, if you can find someone to talk to who was trained on wooden ship building up to the late 60's, it's amazing how much hadn't changed up to that point, for centuries.
For your info https://www.wood-database.com/european-ash/
Also this might be an interesting resource https://snr.org.uk/
The Venetian stuff is all anecdotal (and probably all for the glory of the Serenissima) although there were models in the Naval Museum showing the floating process! I'd love to be able to go back to source documentation here to back some of it up. However the way the Venetians industrialised the process of ship building is extraordinary. Also what they would do to keep the process secret.
Another facet of industrialisation that might interest you is the assembly line process of making wooden blocks for rigging that was, by all accounts, a really big deal for the British Navy at Portsmouth Naval Base. I can't speak to the exact transition from clinker to carvel but it's worth investigating as is this whole issue of the size of trees and what shape they were. (Grown shapes that could be used for stems or floors/frames for example were very valuable because they were easier to work and stronger. It seems to be the case that the Venetians actually bent trees as they were growing to create the shapes they needed. There's also the idea that a master shipwright could spot a grown timber in the tree and know exactly where that particular radius would fit. They might leave the tree until the needed it or cut the piece out and then bury it in mud to preserve it until needed.)
To be honest the subject is a minefield!!! But utterly fascinating in terms of the innovations that developed off the back of Navies and naval campaigns.